I point everyone to this post by Tom Salemi, on his blog. Exactly ... who cares? You need something? Fight for it yourself, pay for it yourself - whatever. Just don't bother me about it.
I remember a column written by Jim Roy for the Current, back when there was a story in the DN about senior citizens complaining about the Proposition 2-1/2 override vote to fund the schools.
Some woman said something along the lines of, "Let the parents pay for it themselves!"
And Jim Roy countered that he'd remember that, when the vote came up on the senior center. He made a quip such as, "You say you want a senior center, Madam? Pay for it yourself!"
Tom is right on. So was Jim. This is a community, not isolated groups of people, some of whom should be expected to fend for themselves, or their children.
Where did this attitude come from?
And what about this extreme resentment of non-Townies? And renters? (See this post on Ari Herzog's blog and the accompanying comments.) If Townies are such a cohesive group, why didn't they at least get their fellow, Steve Cole, past the mayoral primary?
And again, what makes one a Townie? You were born here? You and your father and/or mother were born here? Some or all of their parents were born here?
By the first measure, a lot of the kids in school right now are Townies. Stand by these kids and vote a resounding YES to a debt exclusion! You want them to stick around here, right?
Your fellow (tiny) Townies are counting on you! You really let them down last year ...
Saturday, June 21, 2008
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Resentment? Non-Townies? Renters? All this from a comment that Ari (as masses of 'other' residents are) is a renter and does not pay property taxes that he is so concerned about the spending thereof? You are also a 'Renter'? You do not pay property tax and have the luxury of demanding services and interests in this community yet can pick up and relocate without the concern of a possible large financial loss due to the actions or inactions of others? And this is fair to the many property owners that have made not only financial commitments and personal commitments for this community? Paying 'income tax and Sales tax' is not a 'Community Investment'. Your rented property will pay the same in local property tax even after you leave and there is no tenant to replace your rent to the landlord! Income tax and sales tax are not supportive of the City's financial needs and most non Massachusetts workers and Cottage Business Owners in Newburyport do not pay for the privilege of making a living here. Stores that rent do not contribute directly to this community other than offer services and pay taxes to the State (that we only hope to see in returns from the DOR Cherry Sheet Returns.
No one went to the mat and said that 'renters' were to be left to fend for their own cause(s). No mention of reduced or limited services were mentioned, just whined from your pen and 'opinion', which EVERYBODY has a right to. But also, 'I' reserve the very same 'Right' to point out that there is an unfairness to the very same problem we all have of those who are not contributing the same services and whining or offering advice to those who pay the freight, so to say, and give renters the ability to go to our shared government, dip your hand into the till and come out far and beyond all others. But, do not accuse this city or its taxpayers of attempting to squander the offered services to those who really need them. Look upon those who do not pay their fair share and DEMAND better treatment than their providers. I have the opinion that a 'Renters' tax may be an option to recover some of the lost capital that Newburyport has seen every year. That is my opinion. I have a 'right to it, just as Ari has the right to appear before City Council and open meetings and voice his opinion on the monies of real estate and taxpaying residents because he wants a fancy address but is not willing to make the same commitments as everybody else. You as a renter also find open meetings to voice your opinions and ideas. You voice in open forum your opinions daily. Are they singular? But as a renter, you are offering suggestions on ways of spending all our money with a broad brush are you not? And are surprised at the awakening of such a group of investors to the hole in the money barrel? We are all investors, some more than others.
Townies are not all property owners. Where did that thought come from? But Townies are committed to working to make their City work with long term solutions, not 'hey here I am with all the answers to your 'Yeatville' problems'.
This City needs to stop bleeding money by managing expenditures much better than we are seeing now. Not Re- Mortgaging our City at longer rates (that renters will not need to pay) and more debt cost than we have ever seen before. when rents get so high you up and move, we the property tax payer will still need to pay off your loan too!
No to Over rides or debt exclusion. Yes to managing with what we already have.
Save a Student.....buy a property!Pay property tax.
At least Karp through Newburyport Development owns real taxable property and pays property tax, that is a plus in my book! He donates more to the financial needs of this City than........:-)
Pedro.Tdog
Pedro,
I have to rent because I am too poor to buy anything. I have never owned any property, anywhere. This is not fair.
My rent went up because my landlord had to pay for hooking up to the water/sewer system, and my rent is not low. I paid less on Beacon Hill, in fact. So I am doing my part - I last year paid nearly $12,000 in rent. How much did you pay in property tax?
Pedro, you want to dispossess everyone that rents? Or just me, or Ari, or Tom, because we have blogs?
And by the way, I was joking about the tiny townies. I think there is still a lot of fat that can be cut out on both the city side and the schools, AND I have posted more than once about how every other measure to raise money has not been explored.
I pay plenty to live here, but I choose to stay. Yes, my landlord pays the property tax, but he gets it from ME, and more besides. And he does very little upkeep; I usually do it myself.
Think of all those people in NYC and other cities and towns that rent. What makes Newburyport so unique that renters are demon seed?
I believe one of our City Councillors is also a renter. Should she sit down and shut up as well?
If you put a tax on renters, I will HAVE to leave. I don't want to leave. Plus, I can't vote to raise your property taxes because I am also not a U.S. citizen.
If you want something remotely legitimate to chastise me about, there it is!
Well...I own my home so if anyone wants to dispossess me, bring it on!
But since we're classifying people on their financial investment in the communicy.
JOKE ALERT***JOKE ALERT**JOKE ALERT
I bought my house recently so I obviously paid a lot more to live here than folks who have been lifelong residents.
So that MUST mean my commitment to this town is greater, right? So do get more of a say than those folks who paid mere pittances for their homes decades ago??
Maybe I can get an extra vote or something? Gillian, can I have yours?
THIS CONCLUDES THE JOKE ALERT
townies are in the vast minority in Newburyport, they certainly aren't the reason for the lack of community.
Boy, what a crock! Do you actually READ your posts?
Dispose of renters? What and where did you read that? You suppose that a renter tax would mean to oust someone from Newburyport. Oh, Boo Hoo to you!. Whine me another excuse to write. As long as there is a housing need there will be renters. So we call the renters tax a landlord tax, satisfy you? Then we take profit from the landlords and not you to pay for services over the 42% that renters are not contributing to the local system.
Your $12,000 in Rent, does not go to the tax base in Newburyport, rather to the pocket of your landlord. YOU CHOSE to pay rent opposed to owning. Anybody who can afford $12,000 in rent and fork out for up keep, can own. My total costs are triple that! You chose to live here, and what area, level of abode and conditions, same as I. The difference is my (rent?) goes to support all in this community not to a landed.
So, you are not a naturalized American. Your problem also not mine. Your choice, not mine. Enjoy our freedom. And our support. I won't bother to ask why. You can't vote then stop advising those who can because you do not see the value or the cost. Why is it that you attend Council Meetings and speak out? Democracy is not yours by choice? And I'm wrong to speak up about how my tax dollars are spent?! :0
I paid betterments too, when we were forced to connect to the Water and Sewer 25 years ago! And local taxes, and buy local, and contribute time and money to my community. So? You also do not want to pay more. But, the caveat here is that you stated that a vote to allow debt exclusion and/ or overrides will help the children (cleverly pointing out that WE somehow let them down last time around. When in FACT you will not pay this extra cost, the monies 'saved' will not change the plight of our schools and the debt addition is illegal because we took on the debt with a promise of not extending it and pay down the loan on its agreed schedule. The monies gained will do nothing to correct the overspending and mismanagement of city finances and in two years we will be right back here being asked to pony up yet again. And the next time a debt exclusion and/ or override is questioned, renters will yet again miss the mark when we all are asked to pony up. Not singling you out, but this is a FACT. You can ignore fact for any number of reasons, but it still remains a FACT. You can drag all sorts of names and positions into your renters class, but fact still remains. Finance 101 never changes the numbers. This City needs new income. Renters get away without baring the full operations costs cost as property owners do (and most vote too) and some method needs to be enacted to level the bill. You should take the cost of living here seriously, as you state. But the choice is yours. Steak and Potatoes or Hamburger, your choice, I'm not paying for steak for anyone but my own anymore! You can call this prejudiced or discriminatory or what ever you feel comfortable with, but it is fact and truth and more and more of those paying extra are recognizing the need to share the bills. Popularity is not on my venue. Never was, never will be.
Why would someone that cannot swim jump in to save someone that is drowning? They just make two rescues necessary and double the risk to their rescuers!
And BTW, you and Ari are not the only two who run controversial blogs on the net (wink)! but you seem to be the only two renters that respond to the charge!
Pedro.Tdog
Hey Pedro. "Anybody who can afford $12,000 in rent and fork out for up keep, can own."
That's bullshit. No one will give me a mortgage, without a co-signator, because I have nothing to secure a loan and I don't make lots of money. I can't get ANY type of loan from a bank.
You are corrrect, I CHOOSE to live here, and I intend to stay here for as long as I can.
I patronize local stores (99% of my holiay shopping last year was done here, in town)and restaurants, I volunteer, and btw, I have NEVER spoken at a City Coucil or any other municipal meeting.
Do YOU read my posts? I already pointed out I was kidding about letting the kids down and that I agree that there are other revenue streams that are not being investigated.
And I do pay excise tax, on my car! :)
Dearest blogger Jillian,
If I can become a proud citizen of the United States of America so can anyone. In fact, were I a cad I would suggest the shell of a marriage.
The idea that the renter is not contributing is foolish to a large extent in that they are shelling out large amounts of cash for (at least in my case) several rooms in a property of distinction. That cash goes directly into the pockets of the landlord, who then pays the property taxes on the piece of real estate.
However, were the landlord to try to recover his or her real costs from the denizens of their habitation the renters would be outraged in the extreme (for you see, the rental property business is not necessarily about the cash flow but rather making the renters pay for the property, in which case the landlord then makes his profit from the equity when he sells).
So perhaps everyone is right?
- Mahatma Kote
Dear Mahatma,
I'm not sure I agree with you about the landlord/cash flow since some members of my family used to rent property and it was all about cash flow. Of course, they owned the property outright.
Anyway, thank you once more for your concern about my situation. I cannot see myself marrying anyone just so I can become a citizen! Unless they were very, very wealthy and owned a big home ... and a big sailboat ... and horses ...
Dearest blogger Jillian,
The situation for the landlord is different if the property is owned outright, but for the landlord with a mortgage the game is to make the tenants pay for the property.
For example I am examining the purchase of a property here in Newburyport, within which I will rent several apartments. I cannot afford to purchase the property for cash, but all I will have to pay is the downpayment and then the rents will pay the rest of the mortgage.
Such glory will Allah bestow at that point in time, for I will be able to have Ali and Asad, my cousins, move to be with me. Then, perhaps, the much-vaunted multiculturalism of Newburyport will be forced to acknowledge the true believers. Perhaps then the sluts and lesbians will cover, as only a woman of God is required, and I will be relieved of my manly temptations such as haunt me.
I do not know of any man with such a big home, and horses, and a sailboat, although I remember you and Mr Monohan lamenting that you do not understand the sailing of boats. I do know such people back home in Pakistan, but you would of course have to cover in the manner of all good and holy woman.
I did not either until I went with a friend of mine on his sailing yacht, at which time I came to understand that such an activity is a way to become closer to God and a good excuse to drink beer on a sunny day.
- Mahatma Kote
Good points, Mahatma.
Was I lamenting about not knowing how to sail? I know the fundamentals, but if the wind kicked up suddenly, I and my passengers would assuredly end up in the drink, so to speak.
Our sailing adventures do not usually involve beer. I will shock you, I'm sure, by saying that once we saw a young man urinating off the side of a powerboat, and another time we spied a totally nude man standing on the deck of his moored yacht.
It's so easy to "creep up" on other boats when you're sailing.
But the "offenders" weren't women, so perhaps I'm wrong about the being shocked ...
What's your stance on men displaying their bodies to unsuspecting women in sailboats?
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